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NytWolf
08-03-2003, 11:14 AM
I assume this should go in here, since it's not actually strictly 3rd edition anymore, but now 3.5....

Anyway, at $30 a pop, is the 3.5 PHB, DMG, and MM worth it? Not all that much tweaked that I can tell, mainly adjustments to classesand spells, and clarifications... Should WotC publish a book of changes for d20 to list fully all changes to the books, including the glossaries, that can be photocopied and cut out and taped over the edge of the book in the pages it belongs? Should they offer a PDF on their web site that same way, perhaps have it something that you pay a couple bucks for? It seems really crappy that we, the players, having shelled out some $90 for the 3.0 rules should have to shell out another $90 for the updated rules after we've supported them for several years now... Sure, we can stick with the 3.0 rules, since they will still work fine... But why penalize the group's Ranger with being stuck with either having a preferred enemy she can't use the ability on because she's too weak at 1st level (Dragons?) or have the first preferred enemy being something that, at 20th level, not even need the ability (Kobolds?)?Not every gamer has the money to go out and buy every little pamphlet that gets published... Until recently, I'd been one of the lucky ones, my DnD library prolly costs a good grand at this point... But with a new addition to the family, I can't just go out and buy every book I want... Oh, well... Guess I'm gonna be DLing the books off Kazaa now... :(

Yes, I know WotC posted those PDF files listing the changes, but most of the stuff was like
"The standard races underwent some revision. Highlights include:
Dwarves don’t have their speed reduced from Medium or Heavy armor or loads. They gain weapon familiarity with dwarven waraxes and urgoshes.
Gnomes gain weapon familiarity with gnome hooked hammers and now favor the Bard class.
Half-elves gain additional racial skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information."
and
"Sorcerers gain the ability to make small changes to their spells known. Several familiar bonuses changed.
Wizard school specialization works differently. Several familiar bonuses changed."
Not exactly very useful for implementing those changes, eh? Both quotes are from the Update PDFs freely available on the WotC website, which, I might add, are rather well buried, took me a good hour or so to locate them... The main useful entry in the PDF was that they gave a quite thorough explanation to the change on Damage Reduction for the Monster Manual....


Anyone have any suggestions, other than "Quit whining"? ;)

WarhookDM
08-03-2003, 04:01 PM
IMHO, the nerfs done to some of the classes, many of the spells, etc. make 3.5 a step backwards in many respects. In our group, it has been the overwhelming decision that the 3.5 Monster Manual will be worth the money (for the tactics given with each monster) for the DM's, but that the other changes make the PHB worthless. As for the DMG, I have seen a few things I liked in the 3.5 version, but I don't think it justifies the $40 pricetag.

Dark Matter
08-14-2003, 11:02 AM
If you dun wanna Pay for the book Download it. Thats what i did...just Visit Wizards Of the Coast and they have it to download...not many Modifications other then Ranger..MM Don't Get..i have MM2 its alright...but i prefer the Creature Collection 2 from Swords and Sorcery.

NytWolf
08-15-2003, 07:38 AM
Where on the WotC site is the download you're talking about, Dark Matter? The only DL's I found were the crappy, useless ones I mentioned above...

nautyvampyregod
08-15-2003, 04:25 PM
Well, I say you go and buy all the new 3.5 books. there is a f**k ton fo changes, to everything. Lots of spells have changed, monsters have changed as well. The DMG has most of the modified rules, like flanking and movement have changed. A lot of the magic items are different. The MM has new rules for a lot of different races. It gives a ECL for powerful races instead of character level adjustment.

And I dont mind shelling out 90 bucks for new books. If you buy it from a hobby/gaming store, then by all means do it.

I read a comic book called KODT, and in the back of every issue I read about some guy that goes online and downloads the books, or buys them from E-bay or some discount place. Then a month later they complain about their local gaming store closing down. Use it or lose it folks. Thats the reality of it all...

NytWolf
08-15-2003, 09:42 PM
When you're talking about shelling out $120 for 4 books you already have in workable format, I don't think it's blamable for DLing the changes themselves... Not everybody playing RPGs was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and can afford to buy every book as soon as it's released... Presently, I'm planning to DL the books (PHB, DMG, MM1, and CC1) and if they seem worthwhile, in time (read: Once I have money available and I don't have to put the electric or some other bill back a month) will buy them... I'm sorry, WotC is a greedy megaCorp wanna-be, and quite honestly, I'd prefer to see *anybody* else buy the D20 license from them so I don't have to support those crooks anymore.... And before anyone thinks of flaming me for it, I know CC1 is published by White Wolf... I'm sorry, Sword and Sorcery/ArtHaus is Black Dog Games is White Wolf Games... Keep a single identity, for crying out loud....

One last thing... I'm sorry, but when I *do* buy them, I'm going to be buying them from Waldenbooks, since if you are in the "preferred reader's club", you get a 10% discount, plus the $108 plus tax you just spent on the 4 books gets you a $5 gift certificate and $8 toward the *next* certificate.... I have yet to see a gaming store offer those discounts except to employees...

nautyvampyregod
08-16-2003, 06:00 PM
That is true, but Im saying, if you dont use a local game store, it will dissapear. It seems resonable that you are going to read them before you buy them. I wasnt born with a silver spoon in my mouth either. The books were given to me as a birthday gift. The discount your talking about sounds like a really good deal. Waldens books is a good place. You may not go to your local gaming store as often as I do, so Im not going to argue with you. Your being sensible and I commend that.

I didnt think they released a 3.5 creature collection. Hmm, matbe they did, and if they did I havent seen it yet.

nautyvampyregod
08-16-2003, 06:02 PM
Also, when my friend bought the books, you could pre pay for them and only pay 70 bucks for the three core books instead of the 90 they cost.

NytWolf
08-17-2003, 10:35 AM
Wish I'd have known about the pre-order discount available... lol Course, wouldn't have changed the fact that I don't have the cash available yet... lol

I just saw the Creature Collection 1 revision a couple days ago (Wednesday, 8/13, to be exact), not sure when exactly SS released it...

nautyvampyregod
08-20-2003, 01:46 AM
SS? sorry, I want to say swords and sorcery.....Im not "hip" on the abreviations thing for books

NytWolf
08-20-2003, 08:54 AM
Yep... AKA White Wolf... :)

Azin
08-23-2003, 12:24 PM
Just a little hint guys. The 3.5 players guide has a few obvious changes, such a ranger abilities and monk base attack. But my group has been picking the book apart for about three weeks now, and we've found over 100 changes, including weapons (kukri is martial now), skills (knowledge skills giv sinergy bonuses), and spells (shield no longer gives a Ref bonus). If you do choose to use 3.5, double check everything you do, no matter how basic it might seem.
All-in-all, I'd say that 3.5 PHB is an improvement, the DMG makes good clarifications, and the MM might as well be called Savage Species; the prequal. 3.5 seems to have taken a step back towards 2nd ed, but in a good way. And this is coming from someone who played dungeons BEFORE 2nd ed came out.
The only flaws I found so far are some of the PrC's (mystic theurge is butt) and the gnome/bard thing (retarted. But we've concluded that the core books are Greyhawk based, so other settings like Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft have their own favored classes).

nautyvampyregod
08-23-2003, 02:33 PM
I have to agree...also, haste...the spell.....sucks massive wiener...they toned it down too much from what it was before...but they highly improved the identify spell from what it was...just a few things that we noticed.